Editor/Director Courtney Ware got her start in the industry as a PA, quickly working her way up to producer before her 21st birthday. After her directorial debut on Sunny in the Dark
, she realized a pivot away from producing and into storytelling was in her future, and she got started on being an editor in between directing jobs. The first film to bring her to Sundance was Never Goin’ Back
, and she’s back at the festival this year with Light From Light
And she’s made all these career strides from Dallas, Texas, in a tight-knit local filmmaking community.
“The cool thing about Dallas is that everyone gets to work on each other’s projects. People that I’ve hired in the past, I get to work with them and help them bring their projects to board. We’re a pretty cool close-knit family over here in Dallas. We like working together.”
I talked to Courtney about her return to Sundance as an editor on Light From Light
Director/Editor Courtney Ware
Creative COW: I saw that Light From Light is part of the Next category at Sundance. Why was it placed in that category? What makes it different?
: The film is really contemplative. It’s something that is really quiet and understated, but we have incredibly nuanced performances from Marin Ireland and Jim Gaffigan. I think it’s in the Next category because Marin plays a character who is a paranormal investigator, but the film is by no means a horror film or a ghost story type film. It is really a dramatic film about these characters, and so I think the cool thing about the films that are in Next is that they seem to always subvert genre or do something really interesting that I haven’t seen before. I think this film does exactly that. It’s a drama that happens to have a ghost investigator in it, but it is not a horror film, which I think is really interesting.
As an editor, what was the challenging part of cutting this film? Was there a particularly challenging scene?
While cutting Never Goin’ Back
, our goal was find the funniest take. How quickly can we get through to all of these jokes, because the pacing was really fast. With [Light from Light] everything’s so much more subtle that we were really, really specific in our take choices. We would have just a slightly different line read, and that would of course ripple through the entire film. And so that was challenging to maneuver through these small dramatic changes, and see how drastically these small changes would change the performance, change the feeling, change the tone.
We have a 12 minute scene and within that 12-minute scene is a 2 minute closeup on Marin Ireland where we never cut away. When you have these incredible actors, it’s easy to make bold choices. It was a scene that I was most nervous about and then as we went through it, it ended up turning into my favourite scenee. It was just a really cool way to get the editing out of the way and just let sort of the story unfold.
Light From Light (Courtesy Sundance Institute)
Speaking of sort of getting the editing out of the way, what was your process using Adobe Premiere? Had you been using it before, and did it help you get to the story stuff instead of the technical stuff?
I’ve been using Premiere for – ooh I should count one day. I can’t remember when I switched over! It was whenever Final Cut X came out [ed note: June 2011
] and I’ve just been so happy ever since. This is my third feature film I’ve cut in Premiere. I talk about the intangibles whenever I talk about software. I really like the brain-space of how Premiere is laid out, how it just works. It makes a lot of sense to me and my brain. I’ve worked in many, many other editing softwares and those other softwares don’t quite make sense to me on a really basic level.
I’ve really enjoyed working in Premiere, it’s definitely become a requirement. I’ve gotten a couple of other inquiries about editing and using other programs but it’s not a good idea. I’ve definitely been able to work really quickly. Something that’s really interesting about this film is that I cut on set. So I was ten feet away from filming on my laptop, with hard drives and all that, and was literally cutting everything there. And so having a program that could so easily work and be reliable in such a mobile situation, there’s just no other way to do it for me.
What was it like cutting on set? Were you cutting from the original camera files on set or making dailies as well?
Our DP had a few LUTs that she was choosing between, so it actually synced everything and transcoded into dailies that have the LUT applied. And then I would import that into Premiere and be cutting. I was anywhere from a full day to half a day behind, so it was really, really fast. The whole process took very little time for me to actually get into the scene.
[Cutting on set] was something we tried out on Never Goin’ Back
, sort of a proof of concept, and it really worked. It’s great because I can be aware of what’s going on. Paul [Harrill] is the type of director that likes to get a lot of variations on the scenes. Depending on what the actors were giving him he might change the script around. So being there it was great, because I knew exactly what I was getting, and knew which direction Paul was leaning.
Being able to give real time-ish feedback and to be able to say ‘hey, y’know, I think we need to push further or hold back a little, I think you’ve gone too far’. Stuff like that on an indie film level saves a ton of time and saves us from having to do re-shoots. Plus, I just really like being on set.
Being a director yourself and also an editor, how do you switch between those two ways of thinking? How does that affect your relationship collaborating with a director when you are the editor?
It’s cool because I think they all intertwine. Being a director makes me a better editor and vice versa. I can lend my opinion on stuff like tone. It’s helpful for when it’s the end of the day and we’re running out of daylight, and we have the AD’s shot list but we have time to get maybe two more shots, it’s handy for me to be able to say for the edit we need at least this. I can be that voice that is an outside perspective. And when the director is maybe trying to focus on how to get the day, or how to continue to direct his actors, it’s all helpful. And I think that’s why I gravitated towards editing so much, because they are so intermixed.
Courtney on the set of Sunny in the Dark (Miah Oren Photography)
What do you think is the most important skill that a storyteller can have today and bring to a film?
I think being able to convey a thought is really important. Storytellers are all about communicating and being able to communicate through technology. I laugh a lot because filmmakers live in this intangible – we’re not painting something that you can then look at or touch, we’re creating zeros and ones in this intangible magic of movie magic. And so being able to technically take that magic and turn it into something that you can communicate and connect with your audience is really important. What that skill actually is, I’m not sure. But I think being able to communicate and use the tools that we’ve been given, I think that’s helpful, important.
What would you say to somebody that’s like ‘oh you’re in Dallas, you should come to LA or you should come to New York instead because then you could do so much more on a coast’?
I mean, I stay pretty busy. For me it’s about the people and who you can work with. You can make some really great connections and friendships wherever you are. I’m not really interested in moving away from here. I can make a movie really easily in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I can do it with people that I enjoy working with. It’s just different. I don’t know how else to say it.
I think it’s important to find your people. I’ve started working on projects because people recommended me or I got connected through friends of mine, or friends of friends. If you can find those people that make you a better filmmaker and start making stuff with them, then you slowly start meeting more people and working on new or different projects. It’s about finding those people that will push you to make you better. And those people are everywhere. Especially now that, because our world is so connected.
Courtney at the Sundance premiere of Never Goin’ Back in 2018
What are you excited about doing or seeing at Sundance this year?
It’s funny because the first year you go, everything’s so new and you don’t know what to expect and you’re trying to find that balance between how many films you can watch versus how much sleep do you need. I’m the type of person that really likes to know what to expect, so the fact that I know what to expect for this year makes me that much more excited to go. I love watching movies at 9 o’clock in the morning with a bunch of other strangers and then just randomly walking around in the snow. That’s also something I’m really excited about, because here in Texas we just don’t get snow.
One of the most anticipated films at the 2019 Sundance Film Festival (according to Indiewire
, among others), Honey Boy
is a semi-autobiographical story penned by actor Shia LaBeouf that spans a decade in the life of a child actor. It’s also the first feature film cut by editor Mónica Salazar, a Mexican immigrant whose story starts with a VCR in Monterrey and a dream to one day land at Pixar.
Editor Mónica Salazar in Park City
After starting her bachelors degree in communication in Mexico, Mónica followed her aspiration toward animation to a school she found online. It seemed like a good step toward Pixar, but she’d really never heard of it before: the University of Southern California. She transferred to USC and entered as an international student.
“My first day there I thought they made a mistake.”
Surrounded by US-based friends and peers with vast backgrounds in filmmaking and resumes already full of awards, Mónica worked hard to prove herself and build her confidence. From her early days editing tape-to-tape as a kid, she knew post production was her future. She quickly branded herself as an editor and worked for both the Avid Tech Lab and sound department at USC.
Mónica working on a project at USC.
Landing an internship out of school, Mónica was thrown into the “boot camp” of entry-level post production and continued to work toward the Pixar internship she coveted. Each application and denial got her a little bit closer, and she even landed an interview on the third try. But her friend got the position – and she was rejected again.
“I was very happy for her. But everything that I had been working for didn’t pan out, it was just very awkward and sad. I think I was a little bit depressed about it.”
On the heels of her final Pixar rejection, the company Mónica had been interning for decided to hire her as an assistant editor for Doug Crise, an editor she had long admired.
And after that, he kept hiring her. She became a Post PA on Gold
. Then an assistant editor on Zoe
and The Beach Bum
. A mentorship was born, and it was mutually beneficial.
“As we were finishing The Beach Bum
, he said that there was this movie called Honey Boy
that he wanted to put me up for. That’s how I ended up cutting my first feature – because the editor that I started with three years ago trusted me with this opportunity.”
Editing student films at USC.
Mónica’s humble nature discounts her incredible hard work: as she’s in the United States on a talent-based visa, she has never stopped editing even while she’s been assisting (she has 19 editing credits on IMDB since 2012). Her story is one of generous and necessary mentorship, of luck and opportunity converging, but also one of brilliant strategy and ambition. Mónica figured out what she wanted from her career and has been asking for it at every opportunity.
And she’s continued to lift up those around her during her professional ascension. She commonly recommends young professionals for roles and offers her guidance and mentorship. She’s VP of Blue Collar Post Collective in Los Angeles, a non-profit that supports emerging talent in post production. And during this interview, she kept reminding me that she was a co-editor
on Honey Boy
(sharing editorial credit with Dominic LaPerriere) and that the film was an intense collaboration with Dominic and director Alma Har’el.
Mónica cutting Honey Boy with her trusty hot sauce.
debuts this week in Park City, Utah. I talked to Mónica about her experience on the film, how she dealt with the editorial challenges, and how mentorship and strategy built her editorial career.
Ed. note: Some of the rave coverage of Honey Boy following its premiere, in Variety ("premieres to a standing ovation"), Deadline ("the power to move audiences"), RogerEbert.com ("a cinematic act of courage"), and The Film Experience ("extremely compelling and affecting").
Creative COW: What was your working relationship like with director Alma Har’el through the assembly and director’s cut?
Throughout the assembly, Alma was deep in the trenches of production. I did send her a couple of scenes while she was on set, we talked, and I visited set one day. We talked a little bit on the phone about the scenes and her intention with them. But once we started the director’s cut, that’s when we both were in it deep
. Every single day, we went through every single scene. Alma comes from a background of editing herself, so it’s very understandable that she wanted to see every single take. And she just wanted to go back and re-visit every scene.
Director Alma Har’el (Courtesy of Sundance Institute)
It was very early on that we both knew that the movie was not going to be told linearly. We both were exploring the right moment to cut to the future and the past, or the present and the past. And we were constantly working towards that and what was the right timing, what was the best frame for this
film. And it was on the very last day of the director’s cut that we watched our playback, looked at each other and said we need a different structure
. Very last day of director’s cut! It was hilarious because we just turned to each other and it was like, yeah, we gotta start with the other character, we gotta start with the present or the future and then go back in time
. We said ‘we’re crazy. We’re about to deliver this!’ But we needed to change it.
It wasn’t that the movie needed to be fixed, it was that we wanted characters to be [in the film] until the end. We were gifted with so many good performances. The movie was working, but we realized we could make it even better
. We could go one step further. The entire time you’re in the past [in the timeline of the film], it was just so beautiful and so serene. To tell the story the way it was originally intended, linearly, we would be missing that and those characters for half the film. We were given something so good that we realized we cannot just stop halfway through and not look back.
Mónica, assistant Shannon, and Dominic on Honey Boy
After director’s cut, that’s when Dominic came along. If we wanted to make our Sundance submission deadline, there was no way this could have happened without the three of us working as a great team. We turned into a really good collaborative team because we were literally creating a new cut of this film every three days. It was so much work, but it was so gratifying every time that we took a step, and took a step back, and re-visited the continuity wall. We would just like take a step back and say ‘okay this is not working, okay this is
Each time, something new worked until there was one cut when all three of us watching the movie said ‘this is going to be great.’ And that’s how my relationship developed and then went on. We were just constantly bouncing ideas off each other.
So the process for finding the right structure was very much just moving pieces around and seeing how it played together, and then shuffling them up more?
Yes. But it was great. We did so many unexpected things – things that were not meant to be told. At least in the original conception, they were not meant to be cross-cut. They ended up cross-cutting very beautifully. I had had this happen in short films but since this was my first feature as an editor, it was a completely new challenge.
It sounds kind of daunting for a first feature to be really working the material quite that much. Did you find it was daunting, or were you really just in your element right away?
There’s always a daunting element to it but at the same time, it was exciting
. And sometimes it was like ‘Oh my God, what am I doing’. But I think the more we started to realize things were working, it just felt better and better and better. There was one time, before Dominic came along, Alma and I were joking, ‘oh we’re escaping, we’re escaping the country’. We’re like ‘we’re leaving and that’s it’. But it was fun, it was very fun. There was something very nice and very validating when we got to Sundance. We were like ‘OK, we didn’t f--- this up.’
Honey Boy (Courtesy of Sundance Institute)
The overall editorial challenge was finding the right structure from all the great pieces that you had, but was there a particular scene that was especially challenging to cut?
Yes. There were a couple. I don’t want to give too much away about the ending. But given that we were now in a new structure, we needed to work some things around. And it was a fun puzzle to put together. Because suddenly it had to include things that were not intended to be included there.
What did you learn about being an editor on your first feature that was surprising to you, that you didn’t already know about being an editor on other things?
I learned so many things. This is going to sound cliché, but trusting the process is a big one. And just patience. You have to fail in order to succeed. You have to try twenty other versions before you find the right one, and that was a great thing.
I also learned that I really enjoy the collaboration, having a co-editor. It’s something I had done in school before and I really loved it. But it was just great to go into the mix room and go to another fellow editor and be like ‘what do you think about this?’ And then both of us were bouncing ideas off each other and trying new things, and it was beautiful.
There was a moment where I was reading over a break while I was still cutting. I was reading Walter Murch’s book In a Blink of an Eye
. And one of the things that he said is a movie is its own when the editor disappears
This sounds very pretentious right now – but there was a moment when reading that book, when I was in the middle of it, he talked about having co-editors. I was really excited to collaborate with another editor. And there were moments when we turned to each other and we were like ‘did you do that, or did I do that?’ And it was like ‘I don’t know, but it works!’ We worked off each other very well and all three of us made the movie better by working together. It was fun.
Humble beginnings behind the camera, eventually leading to Sundance.
A lot of the well-known editors today were assisting in a time when assisting was a much, much different job – or maybe they never assisted at all. Now we’re firmly in the generation of editors that have been assistants for quite a while, like you were. How do you think having that background changes who you are as an editor, and how you got to this point?
The biggest challenge that we have now is that the assistant is not in the room with the editor. A lot of big editors now were assistants in movies where they were in the room. The assistant was prepping the film and taking scenes while the editor was there with the director. And that doesn’t really happen for us anymore.
I think that what was different for me was that my editor was very welcoming, and he let me be in the room and he let me talk movies and story with him. And that definitely made me a better editor because I learned from him and he allowed me to be in his room. Sometimes the assistant literally has no time to be in the room because of all the tasks they have to complete. And I think that is unfortunate.
I think that it’s more challenging now for assistants to get that hands on experience. And I think it’s important to find an editor that is willing to take you under their wing.
Mentorship between you and editor Doug Crise has been a huge part of your journey. What’s your dynamic in this kind of relationship? How can mentorship be effective?
And ever since [our first project together] Doug kept hiring me. First a post PA, and then as his first assistant on union features. And I just kept working with him. I developed this relationship in which he trusts my input and we work very well together.
I Post PA’d on a bigger Union feature called Gold
with Doug. He was very supportive and he would let me sit in his edit room and watch him cut in the mornings before the director arrived. I would be sitting there and just watch him assemble scenes. I’d be like ‘oh, what about this?’ Or ‘I really like this.’ Or he would ask for my feedback – as a post PA!
One of the big things that I keep telling everyone is if someone asks for your opinion, be ready to have an opinion, and be honest. Don’t always say that you like things just because you’re trying to be good. Have an opinion, and be ready to back it up. And I think that’s what formed into a really good relationship between him and me.
, I went and got my union hours, and then I came back as a union assistant for him. And the same thing kept happening. He’s like ‘come in, I want you to see this’, and I would like this, or I would not like something, and we would talk about it. We would have a very collaborative nature – and there’s always a respect of well, obviously he’s the editor, and I’m just like making suggestions. Sort of like talking story points, talking emotion. I think that’s what really matured our relationship as creatives.
Mónica gives back to the community through mentorship and leading Blue Collar Post Collective LA, including their monthly meet-ups.
As you edit more, will you make mentorship a priority for your assistants?
I hope so. It also varies from project to project. If the assistant is on with dailies you can invite them to come in, or you can just go get them to watch early assemblies of the cut. Usually the person who helps me is an assistant, and in this case it was Meaghan Wilbur and Shannon Lynch. They were both great because they would be my fresh pair of eyes to watch a cut before I sent it out to the director.
So many times I would also show the scenes to Doug. It’s always about building that relationship. Once the director comes in it’s a little harder because your whole time is spent with the director. But then, I did enjoy being like ‘oh, come and take a look at this’, or ‘look at what we did today’. And we would talk about how things are progressing.
I think it’s also very important that the assistant is vocal about wanting to cut if they want to cut. I think it’s also important that the assistant proves that they have a good sense of storytelling in cutting scenes or in discussions with your editor. The first time that Doug gave me a scene to cut, he said ‘okay I see what you did, but I’m not going to take it.’ And then as our relationship developed and evolved, he later would said ‘Oh, I really like this. Here are some notes.’
And then he saw that I could take notes and he said ‘welcome to the Harmony Korine movie.’ And he put in a scene. And obviously as he was working with the directors some things change, but it was a slow process of ‘here, cut this scene’ and ‘I see what you did. I don’t like it, I prefer what I did’. And it’s all valid.
When you’re sitting and watching a scene alone or with the director, how do you know when it’s worked? How do you know when you’ve got it?
To take a line from [ACE editor, USC professor, and author] Norman Hollyn, when I’m leaning forward
. I was ingrained that in school. It’s hard to keep a fresh perspective, but sometimes you just feel it. I remember clearly the day that we watched one particular version of the film and we were emotional
. We knew this is definitely going to work.
What is it like to be an immigrant in this country, trying to work in a creative industry where it’s so difficult to find jobs? People that have always lived here have to prove themselves, but for you, you have to prove it even more, right? You have to build a portfolio and do more work.
I have to hustle three times more to some extent. At least that was my feeling at the very, very, very beginning. I’m here on a talent-based visa, so I have to constantly be cutting. If I’m assisting, I still have to be cutting too. There’s all these other projects that I’m committed to that I’m cutting because I need to build my editing portfolio. It does mean extra work. But at the same time, I also see it as an advantage because I’m going to see things differently just by nature. I’m going to see everything through a different perspective. Whether I like it or not, it’s just how I am. I have a different background than a lot of people.
And what is it like now to be going to Sundance?
It’s crazy. I wasn’t even planning on going. Now I get to go while my first feature that I co-edited is opening as part of the US Dramatic competition, and it’s getting all this buzz. It’s kind of surreal. I couldn’t have written like a better story myself.
I’m nervous to put all of our hard work out there. It’s going to be out in the world. And so I’m nervous and excited at the same time.
What advice do you have for people that are trying to move up the ladder through post production and into assisting and editing?
Make sure that you’re taking the jobs that are going to take you to where you want to be. Sometimes we get focused on just doing jobs, and we don’t really think about where those gigs are going to be taking us. And I think it’s very valid to be calculated about your career because it’s yours.
Don’t give up, and understand that everyone has different timing for everything. Social media right now makes everyone feel like everyone else is succeeding and you’re not. But that’s just curated success. Everything happens for a reason. I didn’t get my dream internship, and after that I met the editor that would become like a great mentor and friend that put me up to literally be where I am. Everything happens for a reason.
If you've followed me a while on the internets, you know that NAB Show (my first, in 2012, for which I wrote quite a recap
) was a turning point in my career. I was able to get out of my bubble (Indiana), meet the people I knew only online or by reputation from books, and start to build a name for myself on a much larger stage. I learned a tremendous amount I put to use right away. But maybe most of all, my small-town mentality began to fade away and I could see myself in The Industry. Without attending, my career wouldn't be where it is today.
And I would not have been able to attend if I hadn't convinced my boss to send me. It was a miracle because he wasn't exactly invested in my professional development. But after three years of paying me something like $12/hr, I think he felt it would placate me. (It did: I used my networking and skills to leverage into a new job and network, which eventually brought me to Hollywood.)
I was lucky in my timing and my privilege. Although women are not widely represented in the industry, I still broke through. I had supportive parents I could fall back on while in college so I could do internships and land this unicorn of a job in the 2008 financial crisis. I worked hard to be useful enough to send to a conference at the whim of my boss, but many didn't even get the opportunity to perform. So many underrepresented people in our industry are underrepresented because they lacked some level of financial support. While my hill to climb was steep, many others are even more treacherous and never get close to the top.
My first NAB Show
At NAB Show, the definition of underrepresented is pretty wide
: young people, people of color, LGTBQA people, people with disabilities, rural people, people who identify as women, non-binary, or another gender, and even experienced people who have been forced out of the industry due to ageism. BCPC's Professional Development Accessibility Program
seeks to meet the needs of these people: emerging (or re-emerging) talent who can't afford to attend career-changing events like NAB alone and don't have the support of an employer, partner, or other source of financial support. And we're expanding the program from 3 attendees to up to ten this year.
Full time post production workers in the US that make less than the median income where they live are likely to have some trouble making the next leap in their careers. It's hard to say yes to opportunities that would enrich your work life and help you build connections to climb the ladder when your finances limit your choices. That's why BCPC created this program and has a team of volunteers to administer it.
PDAP is the central program of BCPC. We pay for selected lower-income post production professionals to attend important industry events, conferences and trade shows that would otherwise be inaccessible due to cost. Since Fall 2016, we've sent a dozen post people from Texas, California, New York, Pennsylvania, Missouri, and Indiana to events like NAB Show, EditFest LA, Sight Sound and Story, and SMPTE Tech Conference.
2018 NAB PDAP recipients Brittany Joyner, Hannah Walker, and Natalie Setoute with editor Alan Bell ACE
We're now accepting applications to attend NAB Show in Vegas – again, for up to ten
individuals. We book the airfare, hotel, monorail, and the conference pass. You go Sunday April 14 to Wednesday April 17. We provide the basic itinerary, some guidelines, and arrange a few meetings for you based on your interests. The rest is up to you.
NAB is a huge trade show with so much to do, you can't possibly experience it all: you can see or view recaps and experiences from past attendees including Nolan
, and Brittany:
Here's a secret: often when we open applications for specific events, we don't get that many applicants because people assume someone else is in more need than they are -- and that is really silly. Let US decide who not only has the greatest need, but would make the best use of the opportunity for their own career path. If you don't make the cut for NAB, we keep you in mind for other things.
And yeah, it's actually free.
No, it's not too good to be true. We aren't predatory. You aren't selling your soul. We don't even make you write or record a recap – though we encourage it, because press is good!
Filmmaker Hannah Walker prepping for day one of NAB in 2018
We just want to do the right thing because we've been in situations where we've
missed out. Katie Hinsen, our co-founder and former co-president, came up with the program after a member, who was an intern at a big New York post house, had a technical paper accepted to a major conference but was unable to attend because of its inherent costs. With travel, accommodation and conference passes, many people who don't have the support of their employer, aren't seen as "decision makers", or don't have the money to spend, are excluded from opportunities that could be incredibly valuable to them.
For the young man who wasn't able to present his paper, he might have missed out on a huge break in his career. Furthermore, the conference attendees missed out on seeing more of the true diversity that exists in our industry. Katie was so upset that this happened, she vowed to find a way to make sure it never happens again. So PDAP was born, and continues to grow thanks to community and industry support from companies like Flanders Scientific
, Goldcrest Post
, and the COW.
Check out the rules and apply now
on our website!